How we have Changed!
Mar 11th, 2013 by Randy Toman
Can there be a change for the better? Let’s pray there is! There are two suppositions—-two elements of thought that have completely changed the foundations of thinking here in America.
The first is the statement and belief in the “Separation of Church and State”. As if there can be this separation of what is believed in faith as a religion and some how the State will counter everything the church and religion puts forth by having a completely different truth or approach to the understanding of the issue. There can be no separation of church and state—either the state will make void the church’s belief system or agree with it—Regardless of the flow of convictions —–moving toward or away from righteousness—-the state will force its beliefs and religion on to or in to the culture. This dominance of the stronger teaching’s is only the natural outcome as the stronger force will command the issue—–today the state has opposing views and beliefs and modern history shows the state is prevailing here in America forcing “Humanism” into the culture..
It is critical to understanding the doctrine of separation of church and state because it has a direct bearing on the “Educational System” which brings me to my second point. Because of the doctrine of separation of church and state is allowed and followed falsely, the educational system, over the years, put in place the elimination of God from their teachings. This cause and effect is critical in understanding the deterioration of the educational process and how it has been effected through elimination of religious based subject matter and certainly getting rid of prayer and belief in God in the school curriculum.
Because of a doctrine of: Separation of Church and State” we have a crumbling educational system. Understanding this quoted paragraph from Rousas John Rushdoony—The Philosophy of the Christian Curriculum (1981) is critical to recovery.
“The dictionary definition of education describes it as ‘the impartation of acquisition of knowledge, skill, or discipline of character.’ the function of education it thus to school persons in the ultimate values of a culture. This is inescapably a religious task. Education has always been a religious function of society and closely linked to its religion. When a state takes over the responsibilities for education from the church or from Christian parents,the state has not thereby disowned all religions but simply disestablished Christianity in favor of its own statist religion, usually a form of humanism. An excellent means of analyzing the religion of any culture is to study its concept of education.”
“Not only does education find its foundation in religion, but the educational curriculum expresses the religious standards and expectations of a culture.”
There is much to digest in these couple of sentences (above) but allow me to focus on two quick observations.
1/ The culture is going to hell in the hand basket because the educational process has gone to a complete humanistic curriculum.
2/ Because there is this wickedness, and no God or His law in place—–there is nothing to force a correction as things have corrupted themselves in the education system, the government and the social fabric.
Note what David says in Psalms 5 verses 8 & 9 (KJV)
Verse 8—- “Lead me O Lord, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies, make thy way straight before my face.”
What is David saying—teach him what is right—keep him on the straight and narrow path.
Verse 9— “ For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulcher; they flatter with their tongue.”
That is certainly false teaching if you were to listen to those types. Paul quotes the Psalmist David “open sepulcher” in his book to the Romans (3:13)
But back to my points—- “If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? Psalms 11:3 (KJV)
If education is indeed religious and I think that is safe to assume—–then without God in the educational process we can safely assume the foundations have been destroyed—-or—-things are holding together by a thread and are about to be destroyed.
And now the only question remaining is this—will the culture allow the fool to lead:
“The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” Psalms 14:1 (KJV)
The question? Are we going to put God back into education? This must be the pressing work, it is not an option—- a maybe—–but a commandment—listen carefully.
Titus 1:15 (KJV)
“These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority, let no man despise thee.”
We Shall See—-if God will or will not come back in the educational process—-if not—-plan on destruction of both the educational system and the country.
Amen! Without God and the Ten Commandments, there can be no difference between right and wrong as we see all around us. We can thank the anti-Christians in the ACLU for this. They have put themselves above God!
Outsider, criticisms of the “anti-Christians in the ACLU” are legitimate, but I suggest that we should look a bit closer to home if we want to address the situation effectively. Is it always “their fault”…and not “our fault”? What’s being done in and by our churches…pastors and members…to turn anything around?
We can cry all we want about “the ACLU”, “the Democrats”, “Obama”, etc. etc. until we vomit, but nothing will change unless we clean up our own house.
Matt. 7: 3-5
Arrow, the people didn’t kick God out of our schools although they allowed it to happen in pursuit of material things. In a way, we are all to blame but the anti-God movement was initiated by the left leaning elitists in politics and the Communist loving lawyers in the ACLU.
How far do you figure the “anti-God movement” would get if 51% of Christians stood by the Word of God with the power of the Holy Spirit and the Blood of Christ?
I’m glad that YOU are in the fight. Let me ask a question…are you in the fight because your PASTOR encouraged you to do so? Is your PASTOR in the fight? What has he taught YOU and YOUR CONGREGATION about the Biblical principles of sound money, seeing that many of our problems are economic in nature (and yes this is a MORAL problem). What does your CONGREGATION know about such things? Or, do they just support godless Republicans instead of godless Democrats (or vice versa) in implementing their godless, evil fiscal policies?
Does your PASTOR even KNOW what the biblical principles of sound money are?
Better yet…
Does your pastor EVEN KNOW that biblical principles of sound money EXIST?
And we blame the mess on the “liberals” and the ACLU? I think not.
Our pastor never talks about which party we should support. He tells us to vote our conscience. If you were part of our church, you will find us very charitable and willing to help one another. I need not make any apologies to anyone for what I give to the church or other charities and I need not apologize for who I vote for!
“but I suggest that we should look a bit closer to home if we want to address the situation effectively.”
That is good advice!
“Our pastor never talks about which party we should support.”
Good.
“He tells us to vote our conscience”
Too bad he has never understood this: ” Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron” 1 Tim. 4:2 Does this not describe the entire political problem in our nation…and your PASTOR is endorsing it? I’m not surprised, though.
“I need not apologize for who I vote for!”
Really? So, does the person who voted for Obama need to apologize?
I do not doubt your sincerity or zeal, but I think my point about pastors not giving biblical leadership to their flocks stands.
“but I think my point about pastors not giving biblical leadership to their flocks stands.”
Biblical leadership, yes! Political leadership, no!
“Too bad he has never understood this: ” Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron” 1 Tim. 4:2 Does this not describe the entire political problem in our nation…and your PASTOR is endorsing it? I’m not surprised, though.”
You assume way too much about our Pastor whom you know nothing about.
Both sides of our government are complicit in most of the problems we have. We need to direct our voices and anger at them, not each other. We must do that, not the Pastors! Otherwise they would be no different than the politicians!
“You assume way too much about our Pastor whom you know nothing about.”
Not true. You TOLD me that he tells people to vote their consciences. I think that is a wrong, evil idea. People voting their consciences, INSTEAD of voting based on TRUTH is why we are where we are. Do you think that the people who vote for people like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, and Mitt Romney are not voting their consciences? I disagree.
“Biblical leadership, yes! Political leadership, no!” Perhaps this is where our fundamental disagreements come from. I try to base my political ideas on Scripture (scripture…you pastor’s realm of operation, right?), but you have been taught by your pastor to rely on your conscience. You have, apparently, separated politics from religion, and I always like to say if your religion does not dictate your politics, it isn’t worth much.
Did you know that you (and others) can lie to your conscience, causing it to feed back to you a justification for anything you wish to believe? For example, things like Romney being pro-life, Paul Ryan wanting to cut spending, and many many more things repeated over and over and over and over and over and over by Rush Limbaugh and the liars at Fox News.
“Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron” 1 Tim. 4:2
Outsider, the Declaration of Independence was signed by at least one pastor. Signing the Declaration of Independence is historically one of the most radically political things ever done.
Would our pastors been on hand to sign the Declaration of Independence, or would they have been elsewhere?
Please read this: http://www.reclaimamericaforchrist.org/lettertopatriotpastors.htm
Our pastors are silent on politics…leaving the podium wide open for God’s enemies.
“You have, apparently, separated politics from religion, and I always like to say if your religion does not dictate your politics, it isn’t worth much.”
No I have not! My pastor must do that when dealing with his congregation and he must also speak truth. The parishoners are the ones that must make their decisions based on what they are taught! After all, we are what we are taught, are we not? That’s what forms a person’s conscience!
“After all, we are what we are taught, are we not? That’s what forms a person’s conscience!”
Exactly!
So, if you teach a person that politics and religion need to be separated, their conscience will tell them that it is fine to vote for an ungodly person, simply because they are not quite as ungodly as some other candidate.
And if you teach a person that it is good for the government to run education, their conscience will return an “AOK” signal when they vote for socialist thieves who want to use government (YOUR) money to brainwash school kids.
And if you teach people that godless, unnecessary, murderous wars are good when started by Republicans (or Democrats), they will vote for godless murdering Republicans (or Democrats) and their conscience tells that that they did a good thing.
And if you constantly watch Fox News and listen to Rush Limbaugh, your conscience will be twisted to confirm that your votes for godless socialists in the GOP were good because you “kept the Democrats out”.
And if you went to public school and were taught that it is your pastors job to separate politics from religion, and you still believe that, you will cast votes that are unbiblical, and your conscience will tell you that it is ok. And eventually you will lose your country.
Like I said, it comes down to your ultimate source of authority…is it God’s Word, or is it your conscience?
“So, if you teach a person that politics and religion need to be separated, their conscience will tell them that it is fine to vote for an ungodly person, simply because they are not quite as ungodly as some other candidate.”
That is NOT what I said! The pastors need to watch what they preach to us. We are the ones that must keep our faith and vote accordingly. I mix religion with politics all the time as many do. I do not however, want my pastor to get into politics, only teach what is right and wrong according to the bible. We have too many instances where everything we hear is politicized. That’s what the politicians do to keep us fighting with one another awhile they destroy the country with their greed for money and power.
“And if you went to public school and were taught that it is your pastors job to separate politics from religion, and you still believe that, you will cast votes that are unbiblical, and your conscience will tell you that it is ok. And eventually you will lose your country.”
When I went to public schools, they knew right from wrong but no more. That’s why we sent all 8 of our children to private Catholic schools and colleges on my income. Two of them are now teachers in Catholic schools!
“I do not however, want my pastor to get into politics, only teach what is right and wrong according to the bible.”
So, the Bible has nothing to do with politics? How do you determine what is right and wrong in politics? Did you even read the material I suggested on how our nation was built ON THE PREACHING OF PASTORS ON WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, IN POLITICS???
Perhaps we have a disconnect in what we mean by “politics”. You seem to usually boil everything down to Democrats vs. Republicans, Obama vs. Bush, etc. etc. To that extent, I agree that pastors should not be preaching about it, but then I also think it is a horrible waste of time for you or me or anyone addressing it. Politics, in THAT sense, is a total waste of time.
When I say that pastors should be leaders in addressing “politics” from the Bible, I am talking about civil policies and governmental principles. The ONLY place that absolute truth can be found for those things is THE BIBLE, and my complaint is that pastors refuse to do so.
Hope this helps.
Outsider says: “We have too many instances where everything we hear is politicized. That’s what the politicians do to keep us fighting with one another awhile they destroy the country with their greed for money and power.”
AMEN to that! So let’s be done with the empty rhetoric about “Democrats” and “Republicans” and “the Progressives” and all the blame-game crap that the phony, make-believe-right-wing shysters like Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, and Fox News, and the GOP establishment dish out to distract people from the fact that their handlers are stealing everything we own. These awful people will ALWAYS, when push comes to shove, go AGAINST anyone who is TRULY making a REAL effort to get to the heart of the problems. They are the enemy. Period.
Outsider,
Elsewhere you made a point (that I originally made here) that the conscience acts upon what we are taught. Correct, to a large degree.
BUT…what you have advocated HERE is that a pastor should NOT teach ANYTHING about biblical principles of civil government (politics), and then tell people to vote their CONSCIENCES. So, who teaches them the political principles upon which their conscience operate, if not their pastor?
I know the answer…Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Fox News. Hence, we have people voting for communism run by Republicans as opposed to communism run by Democrats. That has worked out very well, do you think?
What other areas of life do you consider off limits for a pastor?